Recently there seems to be some of misunderstanding what the lemmy.ml instance is about, especially from newer users.
Lemmy.ml has always been a niche site, and it will most likely stay this way. We don’t have any intentions to turn it into a mainstream instance, or set a goal of getting as many users as possible. Our goal is simple: make an instance that people like to use. I would say that we have been successful in this, but obviously it is impossible to satisfy everyone.
The reason for this is that @dessalines and I are paid to develop Lemmy, while donations from lemmy.ml users only make up a negligible part of our income. Besides, having more users would force us to spend more time moderating, and less time for development. Lemmy works quite differently from big tech sites like Reddit in this regard: while they get more money with each extra user through advertising, for us it is the opposite. So we would much rather have a smaller, non-toxic, and friendly userbase, than a large one.
Part of the problem might be that lemmy.ml is described as “flagship instance”, which can certainly be interpreted to mean “mainstream” or “general purpose”. I struggle to come up with a better, more accurate description. If you can think of one, please comment here.
If you dont like the way lemmy.ml works, thats okay. Federation exists exactly to solve that problem, let different groups have their own instances, with their own rules and political views. You can see the list of existing instances, and instructions for setting up a new one on join-lemmy.org.
In particular, I would like to see someone (or a group of people) create a mainstream, or liberal instance. That should help to avoid further drama, and avoid attempts to turn lemmy.ml into something that it is not. @dessalines and I would certainly be willing to help with any technical problems that such an instance runs into, and include it on join-lemmy.org (just like any other instance that meets the code of conduct).
@dessalines and I are paid to develop Lemmy
I didn’t know this. I just assumed that it was a hobby project. If you don’t mind telling me, who is financing this? I’m glad someone has the resources to get an app like this developed.
I’m working on getting a Lemmy instance up and running that would be at least somewhat affiliated with the /r/moderatepolitics community. I would be fine with it being the home of a broader set of politics-oriented communities. However, as I’ve discussed elsewhere, I consider the lemmy.ml CoC to be incompatible with a space that invites opinions from an even moderately broad variety of political background. Would there be any flexibility around the CoC, getting listed on join-lemmy.org, and federation?
My vision is to have a three tiered CoC: site-wide, basic, and enhanced. The site-wide CoC would be a set of instance-wide policies that provide just basic rules for good behavior. This would include rules intended to keep the instance from turning into another trash fire like Gab or Parler. The basic CoC would be a template for a medium moderated community like /r/moderatepolitics, so rules that are mainly to keep the peace. The enhanced CoC would be for a heavily moderated community like lemmy.ml or /r/lgbt.
You are right, making the CoC mandatory for listing on joinlemmy is going to be too restrictive for many communities. Your three tier concept sounds overly complicated though, I would suggest simply adding an icon on joinlemmy, for instances that enforce the code of conduct (and no icon for those who dont). Basically, it should be clear to potential users what they are getting into.
We would still have some criteria which would prevent instances from being included on joinlemmy (mainly support for fascism I would say). That said, I also think there is an important difference if “problematic” views are expressed by a few individual users and opposed by others, or if the majority of users and admins shares these views.
Edit: Whether lemmy.ml would federate with your instance is an entirely separate question though. So far we only federate with instances that have the same CoC, but these kind of moderation decisions are always up for discussion.
This might not really be an issue… the crawler can start with any list of specific starting instances, and we could also add blocking to that.
@pingveno@lemmy.ml which specific criteria of the CoC wouldn’t work for you? Pretty much the only one I’m staunch about is anti-bigotry, which it sounds like you have no problem with considering your stance against gab and parler. In that case we’d have no issue federating with your instance and having the crawler pick it up for join-lemmy.org .
The question is, how exactly do you define anti-bigotry? Do bigoted comments have to be removed, and the authors banned? Or is it enough if other users challenge these bigoted views? I tend towards the latter, because it allows for discussion and deradicalization.
Btw it might be better to make a new thread in /c/lemmy regarding joinlemmy inclusion rules, then more people might participate.
Part of the problem might be that lemmy.ml is described as “flagship instance”, which can certainly be interpreted to mean “mainstream” or “general purpose”. I struggle to come up with a better, more accurate description. If you can think of one, please comment here.
How about root instance or just simply dev instance?
“Dev instance” makes it sounds like its primarily about development and programming, which is not the case. Note that the description doesnt have to be that short, the limit is 150 characters.
what about this: “lemmy.ml, an instance run by Lemmy’s developers”
But I don’t get something, if a new instance that adheres to your code of conduct comes around, and ask to be the flagship instance, as in mainstream and general purpose, you will agree with their request?
I would prefer something that focuses on the community, and not just on two of the instance admins. But its a good suggestion anyway.
The question about the flagship instance is a difficult one. I guess we would have to talk to the admins of such an instance, and see if we get along with them.
At the same time, I dont think it should be necessary to have a single flagship instance, because that leads to centralization. Maybe there could be multiple such instances in the future?
so something like “lemmy.ml, a community of leftist privacy and FOSS enthusiasts, run by Lemmy’s developers”.
The question about the flagship instance is a difficult one. I guess we would have to talk to the admins of such an instance, and see if we get along with them.
thank you. I think it’s a good compromise between protecting a community like lemmy.ml and helping the adoption of Lemmy.
At the same time, I dont think it should be necessary to have a single flagship instance, because that leads to centralization. Maybe there could be multiple such instances in the future?
good point, we’re safe for now, but surely we sould keep an eye on that.
do you want to make an official announcement that you’re looking for someone to host a general purpose instance to function as the flagship? and maybe posting the announcement on mastodon, and some subreddits?
so something like “lemmy.ml, a community of leftist privacy and FOSS enthusiasts, run by Lemmy’s developers”.
That sounds pretty good 👍
you want to make an official announcement that you’re looking for someone to host a general purpose instance to function as the flagship? and maybe posting the announcement on mastodon, and some subreddits?
I thought this post would be enough of an announcement, lets see if anyone shows interest to start such an instance over the next days. Anyway, the decision to make it a flagship instance for Lemmy would probably take some time after the instance is launched.
“lemmy.ml, a community of leftist privacy and FOSS enthusiasts, run by Lemmy’s developers”.
I agree too.
