I can’t underestimate the power that social media propaganda has. My ex and another colleague would parrot everything they heard on Facebook and Joe Rogan. My ex even once described fascism as “the best form of government”. And I can only assume he was mindlessly repeating something he saw online with no understanding. He would often parrot the “mozlums are trying to force sharia law on the UK” line, not just to attack me personally, but because he probably believed it, despite living in London where he comes across loads of Muslims and yet he could not produce one real life example. He would also unironically praise and defend yaxley Lennon and farridge. Despite knowing that I would not be safe in a room with either of them. That wasn’t enough to stop him admiring them.
(And yes I stuck around because I was already fully locked into codependency by the time the mask came off. I’m physically free from him now, but still an emotional prisoner. But I’m working on it.)
Ah. Sorry to hear about your Ex. Sounds like he was in the hole, so to speak. Probably for the best that he is now your Ex! At least you were not persuaded by his opinions out of love and stayed true to your beliefs. It’s staggering that he couldn’t see the contradiction between believing Facism to be the best form of government and having a woman of race as a lover. Many such people often live in denial of the facts to suit their beliefs though, as I’m sure you experienced. Anyway, you can do better!
I find it staggering that people are willing to hold those beliefs about Muslims despite the obvious lack of evidence for such ideas. It’s fear propaganda, pure and simple.
As you are a Muslim woman, of which I sadly know none, may I ask you a question?
I would be curious to hear about your personal experiences with the general public in terms of interactions and people’s behaviour. Excluding your ex of course, I don’t want you to relive personally painful memories. I just mean how do you normally find people that aren’t Muslim treat you in society? Has it got better or worse, or the same over the last 5 years? And do you think it sould be diffrrent if you were not a Muslim? Also do you have connection to a large Muslim community? Would be curious to hear what their reaction has been to all this atrocious hate material.
It sounded like you don’t have much faith in the public attitude, and I’m sorry for that. I will always try and persuade anyone though that there are many good people who are proud of how tolerant and open British society is and are angry these luddites are tarnishing our reputation.
In general, I’m lucky that in London there’s a mix of different backgrounds.
My first experience of racism was as a child maybe 7ish, some gammon called me an Indian git because the bus was crowded and he couldn’t get off. Then at 15 when some yoot saw me waiting at a bus stop and said they don’t allow p**is on the bus (this was late 90s). Also, colourism was a big deal with my parents’ generation (“It’s a shame your sisters got lighter skin and you got dark skin” kind of thing), so I grew up being taught from both the media and my own family that light is good, dark is bad, and hating my skin colour and thinking as soon as I’m an adult, I’m going to use skin lightening treatment.
Post 9/11 there was a lot of animosity towards anyone looking vaguely Muslim. I don’t remember experiencing anything personally at that time though. I’ve had the general white saviour types telling me I’m soooo oppressed because I choose to cover my hair and I should really take my hijab off and be free. Like, naff off woman. It’s a piece of cloth.
One woman even asked me if I wasn’t hot in that, when I was wearing a simple hijab and plain black cotton dress. So I said you’re probably hotter in that tweed coat. And she shut up.
About community, not really. I’m autistic and also match schizoid (doesn’t seem to be a thing that’s diagnosed here, so my GP could only go as far as saying I match all but one symptom) so I don’t really have much connection to anyone (hence why I fall l into codependency, both my exes had childhood abuse trauma and treated me like dirt, all it takes a little lovebombing to get me on the hook). But I can tell you, despite that Islam explicitly states your race gives you no superiority over anyone, a lot of my parents’ generation do have some racist tendencies, if I wanted to marry a black man, it would have brought shame upon my parents. They also fell for the colonial divide and rule tactics and look down on Pakistanis. It’s all really stupid.
As I said, in London we’re such a mix, so we’re used to mingling with people of different backgrounds, it’s just normal. I can’t imagine London going right wing, my area is largely Orthodox Jewish and Afro Caribbean, I can’t see them voting reform or tory. It’s been labour here as long as I can remember. I think most of London is safe. But reform’s popularity, combined with social media propaganda does embolden the racists. YouTube is determined to force far right propaganda. Once I looked up a clip of Rudy’s rare records on a private mode window, and the recommended videos under it were 90% right wing propaganda.
My parents’ generation experienced horrific racial abuse. My uncle (gen x) did a Twitter post about it years ago, I think I screenshot it, I’ll see if I can find it.
If anything, I experience sexism these days more than any kind of racial or religion discrimination (I work in the bike industry and men, and sometimes women, will immediately ask for a man and assume I know nothing, even though I’ve trained as a bike mechanic. I have a whole thread on mastodon if you’re curious).
In general, I think most people are good. I think most people just want to get on with a peaceful life. But the loudest voices are the voices of hate. And the media loves to platform these people. And I’ve seen how easy it is to fool people with the most basic propaganda. I look at what’s happening in the US and feel it’s only a matter of time before that happens here too. It’s scary.
Sorry, didn’t mean to write such an essay. I hope I answered your questions!
Wow. Thanks for the in depth response! Really appreciate it.
Reading some of those stories is slightly disheartening. The world is such a fucked up place and hard to make sense of when you’re growing up without people discriminating against you for something you have no control over. It makes me incredibly angry that people behave on that sort of way. Really thought we had turned a corner after the whole "all muslims are terrorists’ bollocks of the 2000s as well. I have seen videos of what it was like in the 1980s and 90s and it was horrific. Surely we would never return to that. Surely.
It was interesting reading that there seems to be some different versions of the same discriminatory behaviour even within your community as well as being victims of it. It’s baffling to be honest. I know it’s not as simple as “lets all hug it out” but surely those that seek tolerance should also be practicing it. I’m guessing there’s a lot of cultural history related to it that I’m not currently aware of. Still, it’s interesting.
It sounds like your experiences, whilst you wouldn’t wish them of anyone, have given you a preparedness for when people say and do stup
pidly intolerant things. I guess it helps build character in a morbid way. You handled it well.
London is something I’m thankful for in terms of the cultural diversity. I’m in Surrey just outside of it so it’s much quieter but also much less diverse. Everyone is very well behaved and tolerant where I live but perhaps because there’s very little to tolerate. There are big Muslim communities in Surrey though and they seem to thrive but there’s not much reason to visit unless you practice Islam. I do go to London and enjoy a few things though and it’s great to see all different types of people getting along.
Are you aware of the narrative that right wing influencers are trying to peddle at the moment in terms of London being a crime ridden hellscape? It’s laughable. Completely shows they need that sense of fear and division in people to make their messaging effective. I’m guessing where are in there is nothing of the sort! Hopefully aha.
Can I ask, why do you think you experience sexism more than any other form of discrimination these days then? Do you think it’s due to the whole “manosphere” Andrew Tate rubbish or just a failure of some to change their entrenched views of the other sex? Or both?
America is hopefully a unique case on my view. I think we can make it easier on ourselves jere and in the EU by punishing social media companies and persecuting hate speech. That is impossible in the US due to Freedom of Speech laws so people can spread whatever lies they want. Particularly billionaires. They can also pay as much as they want to influence elections. Again, they can’t here. Our system is a bit more robust. It’s not infallible, I just hope it will stand up better than the US to the tidal wave of right wing propaganda.
Well done for persevering with the autism too. Sounds tough. It’s hard to say as I don’t know you personally but you seem like someone who has their shit together so good on you.
Oh I’m a hot mess right now and only my remarkable ability to block things out is keeping my head above water. I can’t even get past the anxiety and move out.
The sexism is purely since I started working in the bike industry. Once it was me and my male supervisor behind the counter. I was literally building a bike and a customer came to the counter asking if someone can advise her. The supervisor was busy with admin, so I got up and said I can. And she said, I mean I need someone who knows about bikes.
I was literally building a bike!
But usually I get this crap from men. Usually in the form of asking if there are any men around or just immediately assuming I know nothing because I’m a woman, even though I’m more highly trained than many of my colleagues.
I can’t underestimate the power that social media propaganda has. My ex and another colleague would parrot everything they heard on Facebook and Joe Rogan. My ex even once described fascism as “the best form of government”. And I can only assume he was mindlessly repeating something he saw online with no understanding. He would often parrot the “mozlums are trying to force sharia law on the UK” line, not just to attack me personally, but because he probably believed it, despite living in London where he comes across loads of Muslims and yet he could not produce one real life example. He would also unironically praise and defend yaxley Lennon and farridge. Despite knowing that I would not be safe in a room with either of them. That wasn’t enough to stop him admiring them.
(And yes I stuck around because I was already fully locked into codependency by the time the mask came off. I’m physically free from him now, but still an emotional prisoner. But I’m working on it.)
Ah. Sorry to hear about your Ex. Sounds like he was in the hole, so to speak. Probably for the best that he is now your Ex! At least you were not persuaded by his opinions out of love and stayed true to your beliefs. It’s staggering that he couldn’t see the contradiction between believing Facism to be the best form of government and having a woman of race as a lover. Many such people often live in denial of the facts to suit their beliefs though, as I’m sure you experienced. Anyway, you can do better!
I find it staggering that people are willing to hold those beliefs about Muslims despite the obvious lack of evidence for such ideas. It’s fear propaganda, pure and simple.
As you are a Muslim woman, of which I sadly know none, may I ask you a question?
I would be curious to hear about your personal experiences with the general public in terms of interactions and people’s behaviour. Excluding your ex of course, I don’t want you to relive personally painful memories. I just mean how do you normally find people that aren’t Muslim treat you in society? Has it got better or worse, or the same over the last 5 years? And do you think it sould be diffrrent if you were not a Muslim? Also do you have connection to a large Muslim community? Would be curious to hear what their reaction has been to all this atrocious hate material.
It sounded like you don’t have much faith in the public attitude, and I’m sorry for that. I will always try and persuade anyone though that there are many good people who are proud of how tolerant and open British society is and are angry these luddites are tarnishing our reputation.
In general, I’m lucky that in London there’s a mix of different backgrounds.
My first experience of racism was as a child maybe 7ish, some gammon called me an Indian git because the bus was crowded and he couldn’t get off. Then at 15 when some yoot saw me waiting at a bus stop and said they don’t allow p**is on the bus (this was late 90s). Also, colourism was a big deal with my parents’ generation (“It’s a shame your sisters got lighter skin and you got dark skin” kind of thing), so I grew up being taught from both the media and my own family that light is good, dark is bad, and hating my skin colour and thinking as soon as I’m an adult, I’m going to use skin lightening treatment.
Post 9/11 there was a lot of animosity towards anyone looking vaguely Muslim. I don’t remember experiencing anything personally at that time though. I’ve had the general white saviour types telling me I’m soooo oppressed because I choose to cover my hair and I should really take my hijab off and be free. Like, naff off woman. It’s a piece of cloth.
One woman even asked me if I wasn’t hot in that, when I was wearing a simple hijab and plain black cotton dress. So I said you’re probably hotter in that tweed coat. And she shut up.
About community, not really. I’m autistic and also match schizoid (doesn’t seem to be a thing that’s diagnosed here, so my GP could only go as far as saying I match all but one symptom) so I don’t really have much connection to anyone (hence why I fall l into codependency, both my exes had childhood abuse trauma and treated me like dirt, all it takes a little lovebombing to get me on the hook). But I can tell you, despite that Islam explicitly states your race gives you no superiority over anyone, a lot of my parents’ generation do have some racist tendencies, if I wanted to marry a black man, it would have brought shame upon my parents. They also fell for the colonial divide and rule tactics and look down on Pakistanis. It’s all really stupid.
As I said, in London we’re such a mix, so we’re used to mingling with people of different backgrounds, it’s just normal. I can’t imagine London going right wing, my area is largely Orthodox Jewish and Afro Caribbean, I can’t see them voting reform or tory. It’s been labour here as long as I can remember. I think most of London is safe. But reform’s popularity, combined with social media propaganda does embolden the racists. YouTube is determined to force far right propaganda. Once I looked up a clip of Rudy’s rare records on a private mode window, and the recommended videos under it were 90% right wing propaganda.
My parents’ generation experienced horrific racial abuse. My uncle (gen x) did a Twitter post about it years ago, I think I screenshot it, I’ll see if I can find it.
If anything, I experience sexism these days more than any kind of racial or religion discrimination (I work in the bike industry and men, and sometimes women, will immediately ask for a man and assume I know nothing, even though I’ve trained as a bike mechanic. I have a whole thread on mastodon if you’re curious).
In general, I think most people are good. I think most people just want to get on with a peaceful life. But the loudest voices are the voices of hate. And the media loves to platform these people. And I’ve seen how easy it is to fool people with the most basic propaganda. I look at what’s happening in the US and feel it’s only a matter of time before that happens here too. It’s scary.
Sorry, didn’t mean to write such an essay. I hope I answered your questions!
Wow. Thanks for the in depth response! Really appreciate it.
Reading some of those stories is slightly disheartening. The world is such a fucked up place and hard to make sense of when you’re growing up without people discriminating against you for something you have no control over. It makes me incredibly angry that people behave on that sort of way. Really thought we had turned a corner after the whole "all muslims are terrorists’ bollocks of the 2000s as well. I have seen videos of what it was like in the 1980s and 90s and it was horrific. Surely we would never return to that. Surely.
It was interesting reading that there seems to be some different versions of the same discriminatory behaviour even within your community as well as being victims of it. It’s baffling to be honest. I know it’s not as simple as “lets all hug it out” but surely those that seek tolerance should also be practicing it. I’m guessing there’s a lot of cultural history related to it that I’m not currently aware of. Still, it’s interesting.
It sounds like your experiences, whilst you wouldn’t wish them of anyone, have given you a preparedness for when people say and do stup pidly intolerant things. I guess it helps build character in a morbid way. You handled it well.
London is something I’m thankful for in terms of the cultural diversity. I’m in Surrey just outside of it so it’s much quieter but also much less diverse. Everyone is very well behaved and tolerant where I live but perhaps because there’s very little to tolerate. There are big Muslim communities in Surrey though and they seem to thrive but there’s not much reason to visit unless you practice Islam. I do go to London and enjoy a few things though and it’s great to see all different types of people getting along.
Are you aware of the narrative that right wing influencers are trying to peddle at the moment in terms of London being a crime ridden hellscape? It’s laughable. Completely shows they need that sense of fear and division in people to make their messaging effective. I’m guessing where are in there is nothing of the sort! Hopefully aha.
Can I ask, why do you think you experience sexism more than any other form of discrimination these days then? Do you think it’s due to the whole “manosphere” Andrew Tate rubbish or just a failure of some to change their entrenched views of the other sex? Or both?
America is hopefully a unique case on my view. I think we can make it easier on ourselves jere and in the EU by punishing social media companies and persecuting hate speech. That is impossible in the US due to Freedom of Speech laws so people can spread whatever lies they want. Particularly billionaires. They can also pay as much as they want to influence elections. Again, they can’t here. Our system is a bit more robust. It’s not infallible, I just hope it will stand up better than the US to the tidal wave of right wing propaganda.
Well done for persevering with the autism too. Sounds tough. It’s hard to say as I don’t know you personally but you seem like someone who has their shit together so good on you.
Enjoy the essay back.
Oh I’m a hot mess right now and only my remarkable ability to block things out is keeping my head above water. I can’t even get past the anxiety and move out.
The sexism is purely since I started working in the bike industry. Once it was me and my male supervisor behind the counter. I was literally building a bike and a customer came to the counter asking if someone can advise her. The supervisor was busy with admin, so I got up and said I can. And she said, I mean I need someone who knows about bikes.
I was literally building a bike!
But usually I get this crap from men. Usually in the form of asking if there are any men around or just immediately assuming I know nothing because I’m a woman, even though I’m more highly trained than many of my colleagues.
Here’s my mastodon thread
https://autistics.life/@SilverArrows/114211836159611397
I don’t think nitter works anymore, but here’s my uncle’s experience growing up Indian in the UK. Warning, very racist language and traumatic experiences. Edit: nitter still works!
https://nitter.net/HovellingHermit/status/1270701202188222465#m